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Dominique
Member Purpuricenus
France
387 Posts |
 Posted - 10/02/2013 : 09:14:21
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D. Poirier-Ducrocq : Arménie : Dilidjan (Tavush) (40.722675,44.8003944) : 11/6/2012
Altitude : 1450 - Taille : 10 mm mesurés
Réf. Galerie Insecte.org : 97146
Bonjour,
Celui-ci a été pris au printemps dernier dans le Nord-Est de l'Arménie. Je pense à Cortodera aestiva.
Confirmation, ou grossière erreur ? |
Edited by - Dominique on 04/05/2015 10:44:01 |
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Sergey
Member Nathrius
Russia
5 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2013 : 11:14:18
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| It not Cortodera aestiva. Isn't present in fauna of Armenia. It is necessary to look towards Cortodera colchica Reitter or Cortodera alpina (Ménétriés) |
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Dominique
Member Purpuricenus
France
387 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2013 : 08:48:24
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Thanks. Genus Cortodera is difficult, I need to try to find the description of these taxa and their subspecies.
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Francesco
Forum Admin
Luxembourg
9454 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2013 : 16:33:04
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Tu peux essayer à identifier cette espèce avec la clé des travaux de Pic du 1898 qui sont présents dans la library. Les noms sont à ajourner mais les caractères sont encore valides.
Selon moi il s'agit plutôt de C. colchica.
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Dominique
Member Purpuricenus
France
387 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2013 : 17:05:03
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J'ai comparé avec les colchica que j'ai en collection (de Turquie et de Grèce), manifestement ce n'est pas ça, le pronotum semble moins transverse sur ces spécimens, et les élytres plus atténués vers l'arrière.
Avec la clé de Pic, j'arrive toutefois à Cortodera alpina umbripennis, bien donnée d'Arménie. Mais ce n'est pas du 100% de fiabilité, les critères de Pic étant parfois assez légers ou difficiles à saisir... |
Edited by - Dominique on 12/02/2013 17:55:12 |
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Francesco
Forum Admin
Luxembourg
9454 Posts |
Posted - 13/02/2013 : 16:54:12
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Oui, c’était l'autre possibilité.
Ici il y a une photo d'une femelle de colchica et de alpina umbripennis.
Pour moi ce n'est pas facile de juger à partir d'une photo... je peux observer de différences au niveau de couleur (?), ponctuation, pubescence, forme du prothorax et longueur des antennes de colchica qui me semblent plus proches à la tienne, mais c'est à toi à juger...
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Dominique
Member Purpuricenus
France
387 Posts |
Posted - 13/02/2013 : 22:10:44
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Je ne connaissais pas la photo de colchica du site Zin.Ru, qui est en effet très proche de mon spécimen.
La pilosité pronotale et de l'avant des élytres des alpina umbripennis du forum russe est longue et couchée, ce qui n'est pas le cas sur mon spécimen.
A cause de cette pilosité,je tends finalement comme toi vers colchica.
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Max
Member Rosalia
Russia
720 Posts |
Posted - 13/02/2013 : 23:20:33
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If it help somehow...
Cortodera colchica from Armenia (Khosrov), female 8 mm (it is normal size)
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Francesco
Forum Admin
Luxembourg
9454 Posts |
Posted - 14/02/2013 : 15:42:27
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| Is the pubescence of colchica always dark? |
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Max
Member Rosalia
Russia
720 Posts |
Posted - 14/02/2013 : 18:52:36
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Mmm... I have no series of Cortodera colchica, one pair only. Male have pubescence mainly dark but with admixture light setae on elytra. The beetle from Dominic is rather strange but, possible, it is within the norm of variability Cortodera colchica. I shall try to realize this question at opportunities and return to him subsequently.
Cortodera colchica kalashiani from Megri already absolutely does not similar.. Old photo, none so good
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Edited by - Max on 14/02/2013 18:55:06 |
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Xavier
Scientific Collaborator
France
12193 Posts |
Posted - 14/02/2013 : 19:25:35
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quote:
Old photo, none so good
?????? Come on ! I hope to realize one like that a day ! |
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Dominique
Member Purpuricenus
France
387 Posts |
Posted - 15/02/2013 : 07:23:36
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I have the same doubts about umbripennis and colchica, and I will try to get a better photo (this one is a really ugly scan  ).
I come back to C. aestiva, given from eastern Turkey on Rejcek & Hoskovec website : : http://www.cerambyx.uochb.cz/cortodera_aestiva.htm . There is a great similarity with mine (habitus, hair, color of the legs), and the eastern Turkey is not very far from the place where I caught my specimen. |
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Max
Member Rosalia
Russia
720 Posts |
Posted - 15/02/2013 : 17:09:30
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Dear Dominic, in the opinion of M. Danilevsky (I`m ask his opinion now) your beetle is Cortodera colchica.
The population near Dilizhan is presented large person, colouration of the legs (like on your photo) for them not rarity, and this population exists like special subspecies (in his interpretation) description which will is in the near future published (in press).
Besides, much possible that aestiva too is a form colchica. |
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Dominique
Member Purpuricenus
France
387 Posts |
Posted - 15/02/2013 : 17:48:18
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Thanks Max, and also thanks to Mikhail. I'm waiting for his paper about this new ssp !
In fact, this insect is not so common, we only caught one during our 2-week trip. Maybe was it too late (or too early ?) or too cold, we didn't see lots of Cerambycidae, except Agapanthias ...
I did'nt know that aestiva could be considered as a form of colchica. |
Edited by - Dominique on 15/02/2013 18:00:19 |
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Max
Member Rosalia
Russia
720 Posts |
Posted - 15/02/2013 : 19:15:11
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"I did'nt know that aestiva could be considered as a form of colchica." -
It is not a fact yet, conjecture only. |
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Dominique
Member Purpuricenus
France
387 Posts |
Posted - 16/02/2013 : 11:40:02
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Yes Max, I have well understood (that's why I wrote "could").  |
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Armenia, Cortodera: colchica dilizhanica ♀
