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Xavier
Scientific Collaborator
France
12328 Posts |
 Posted - 07/08/2014 : 23:59:23
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21 mm. Pahang, Cameron Highlangs, Malaisie.
Robert  m'a donné cette espèce comme Ipothalia esmeralda Bates. Pourtant, je ne suis pas du tout sûr de cette détermination, car que je ne trouve aucune mention de I.esmeralda en Malaisie péninsulaire.
A ce que je comprends, les métafémurs devraient être entièrement noirs ? (cf Bentanachs, Vives & Chew, 2012)
Quel casse-tête ces Ipothalia, alors qu'il y a si peu d'espèces finalement  !
Autre possibilité avec cette couleur de pattes : I.metallica, ...mais c'est une espèce de Bornéo (Sabah) .
je nage. |
Edited by - Xavier on 20/03/2025 13:16:02 |
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dryobius
Member Rosenbergia
USA
1889 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2014 : 03:13:32
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Hi Xavier,
Color is frequently an unreliable characters in Callichromatini. I have Ipothalia esmeralda from Borneo with black tibiae and some without black tibiae. These specimens also are slightly different in the shade of green on the elytra, however all of the specimens have the same amount and type of punctation on the pronotum.
I am also not totally satisfied with the names on my Ipothalia, because I have never seen a specimen of I. metallica. A close-up photograph of the pronotum of the holotype would be very useful to me. I have no specimens from peninsular Malaysia to study.
Despite the papers published on Pachyteria, Schmidtiana, etc... I believe there are several species which should be synonymized, but that is for some other time.
I wish I could be of more help. |
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Xavier
Scientific Collaborator
France
12328 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2014 : 09:20:23
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Ok, thanks. I thought the same about Ipothalia colour: Bentanachs(2012) short key is useless.
I could take pictures at MNHN of Ipothalia bicoloripes Pic and Ipothalia bicoloripes v. semipurpurea Pic in september. I.metallica is in London... |
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horshehden
Member Purpuricenus
Czech Republic
424 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2014 : 17:28:55
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Your specimen is almost identical to the flying type of I. metallica - except the pronotum
The color of legs of the specimen in BVC2012 is slightly different to the type.
I cannot upload it know, but if you recall it to me next week by email, I will send it (the same for Dan).
Definitely, the specimen which I collected in Danum valley is not I. metallica. Do you have such specimen, Dan? The nearest species seems to be I. femorata or those from Philippines.
http://www.cerambycoidea.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8974 |
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Xavier
Scientific Collaborator
France
12328 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2014 : 18:52:29
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quote:
Originally posted by horshehden
I cannot upload it know, but if you recall it to me next week by email, I will send it (the same for Dan).
Nice! I really want to understand something in this genus!
PS ; What is BVC2012 ?? |
Edited by - Xavier on 10/08/2014 18:53:46 |
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horshehden
Member Purpuricenus
Czech Republic
424 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2014 : 08:43:55
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Bentanachs, Vives, Chew or Bosuang, as you wish - unfortunately, there is mistake also in the names of the authors.
While the title pages say the new name (Bosuang), the first (page 5) the old one (Chew).
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Xavier
Scientific Collaborator
France
12328 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2014 : 08:52:01
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| ok |
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Xavier
Scientific Collaborator
France
12328 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2014 : 08:36:10
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| Well, "if" legs colour don't care, the closer species to mine is I esmeralda (Flying's one, on Larry website) for puncture and double striated pronotum. |
Edited by - Xavier on 12/08/2014 08:41:34 |
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horshehden
Member Purpuricenus
Czech Republic
424 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2014 : 17:21:59
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Well, first, I do not know what do you mean by "flying" - is there any photo of flying Ipothalia esmeralda? I do not see it.
Second, I do not beleive that the two specimens "photographer: Dan Heffern" are the same - I can admit variability in the coloration of legs and some in elytra (more/less green/blue), but not in the antennae! Moreover, it seems that the shape of elytra and pronotrum is different...
Third, there is no type photo...
Fourth, I do not know know how reliable Larry is in determination - unfortunately, there are (or at least were) many "meaningless" pictures from the Palearctic fauna, just taken from their original websites...
If I remember it well pronotum of the type series of I. esmeralnda is completely punctuated, almost wrinkled; yours is rather smooth and shining apically, right? |
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Xavier
Scientific Collaborator
France
12328 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2014 : 18:01:40
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The "flying" Ipothalia is the I.metallica with open wings in Larry's website... You called it like that in your precedent message, no ?
<<Your specimen is almost identical to the flying type of I. metallica - except the pronotum :-)>>
I kwow there are some mistakes on Larry website, like here I imagine. but without any way to follow... |
Edited by - Xavier on 12/08/2014 18:04:20 |
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horshehden
Member Purpuricenus
Czech Republic
424 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2014 : 18:56:29
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Sure, despite the drawbacks, Larry should get the metals for introducing a lot of names, figures..
Despite that, you stated "esmeralda" before, but now metallica? Anyway, the same applys for the pronotum - yours is smooth in front and the (mine) type photo of metallica not.
You have reffered to the "double striated pron." - do you have a different photo than I can see? As far as I can see tha pronotum is unique all over the surface, when using both my as well as Larry's photo - but your's not, right? |
Edited by - horshehden on 13/08/2014 03:22:44 |
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horshehden
Member Purpuricenus
Czech Republic
424 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2014 : 19:05:31
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| Let me know later your opinion, it is already a new day here - for a long while, and I should sleep a little. |
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Xavier
Scientific Collaborator
France
12328 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2014 : 19:10:38
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I can try to make a better picture tomorrow...
Pronotum is striated at base and apex, ponctuated but less on the disk |
Edited by - Xavier on 12/08/2014 19:11:36 |
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horshehden
Member Purpuricenus
Czech Republic
424 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2014 : 19:38:06
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Sure, I agree, but the types (as far as I can observe when being here at Luzon) are not..
at least I cannot see anything like that in my photos from London. |
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Xavier
Scientific Collaborator
France
12328 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2014 : 19:43:04
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Ok, thank you. I hope pictures from Paris could help a little for this genus...
...and have a nice trip |
Edited by - Xavier on 12/08/2014 19:43:52 |
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dryobius
Member Rosenbergia
USA
1889 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2014 : 19:56:27
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| I think your discussion on Ipothalia is very interesting. I can't really help to solve the problem from here in Texas! I hope Xavier can obtain a photograph of the types of Ipothalia. Otherwise, I have a colleague going to London next year to photograph some types for his study. One can not neglect the potential of a new species, either. This genus is only one of many in Borneo which has taxonomic problems. |
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Malaisie: Ipothalia Ipothalia pyrrha var. serrei
