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 Cerambycidae Lamiinae
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 South Africa: Stathmodera aethiopica
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Riana
Member Rosalia

South Africa
737 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2018 :  19:52:13  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote

357.85 KB

South Africa: Natal
Length 11 mm

Stathmodera aethiopica densesulcata Breuning, 1940

Jérôme Sudre
Member Rosenbergia

France
1773 Posts

Posted - 06/09/2018 :  09:32:56  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Yes Stathmodera aethiopica Breuning = S lobata Breuning.
Stathmodera densesulcata Breuning = Parastathmodera bothai Breuning differs from S aethiopica in pronotum with slightly curved longitudinal striations, unlike S aethiopica, which lacks it.
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Riana
Member Rosalia

South Africa
737 Posts

Posted - 06/09/2018 :  10:04:23  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Thank you Jérôme
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Francesco
Forum Admin

Luxembourg
9454 Posts

Posted - 06/09/2018 :  10:09:03  Show Profile  Email Poster  Visit Francesco's Homepage  Reply with Quote
There I do not understand.
You have put in synonymy Stathmodera densesulcata with Parastathmodera bothai claiming that densesulcata is a Western subspecies of aethiopica... but bothai was described from South Africa, where you record aethiopica aethiopica!

Moreover, Teocchi (1998) recorded aethiopica from South Africa and Zimbabwe and densesulcata from Mozambique, Zimbabwe and South Africa (Natal, Transvaal).

How can you think that they are subspecies if they occupy superposed areas???

P.s. I also note that the consideration of densesulcata as ssp. of aethiopica is invalid since written as Conditional proposal (ICZN Art. 15).
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Jérôme Sudre
Member Rosenbergia

France
1773 Posts

Posted - 06/09/2018 :  14:40:46  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Bonjour Francesco de toutes manières densesulcata est pour moi une espèce à par entière, différente de aethiopica.... Mais il nous faudrait le publier avec évidemment des réhabilitations des justifications etc... et c'est long mais en préparation (avec des Prosopocera et autres genres notamment le merdiers entre les Sybrinus, Sophroniella, Nyoma et Pterolophioides etc...)
S densesulcata pour les exemplaires que j'ai pu voir, ils sont tous d'Afrique de l'ouest (de l'Angola en passant par la RCA à la Côte d'Ivoire et plus haut aussi) la mise en synonymie en 92 par Téocchi de Parastathmodera bothai Brg 1981 avec densesulcata pour moi serait à préciser ! Néanmoins dans la photo de qualité médiocre, qui est donnée dans la description de ce nouveau genre je pense (?) qu'il s'agit d'un synonyme de aethiopica = lobata et cette dernière synonymie est pour moi fondée.
Si j'ai utilisé S densesulcata = P bothai c'est que je me suis seulement plié à ce qu'avait écrit Téocchi comme je ne peux pas l'infirmer ?!
S. densesulcata a vraiment un étirement apical long, des sillons sur le pronotum très nets et bien creusés et nettement apparents alors que chez aethiopica = lobata les sillons sont malgré tout plus estompés et de plus cachés par une pubescence contrairement à densesulcata, l'étirement apical est bien plus court la dimension des individus est plus grande (du moins dans ce que j'ai pu voir) mais en tous cas ça semble la règle. Il faudrait que je me bouge (pas facile entre travail, obligations familiales et cette passion) et que je réhabilite ce qu'il y a à faire...... Et je n'ai à ce jour pas vu de forme de transition ......

Hello Francesco in all ways Densesulcata is for me a species to whole, different from aethiopica .... But we should publish it with obviously rehabilitations justifications etc .... and it is long but in preparation (with Propocera and other genera including Sybrinus, Sophroniella, Nyoma and Pterolophioides etc ....)
S densesulcata for the specimens that I could seen, they are all from West Africa (from Angola through the RCA to Ivory Coast and above also) the setting in synonymy in 92 by Téocchi of Parastathmodera bothai Brg 1981 with Densesulcata for me would be needed! Nevertheless, in the picture of mediocre quality, which is given in the description of this new genre I think (?) That it is a synonym of aethiopica = lobata and this last synonymy is for me founded. If I used S densesulcata = P bothai is that I only bent what Teocchi wrote as I can not deny it ?!
S. densesulcata really has a long apical stretch, furrows on the pronotum very clear and well dug and clearly visible where as in aethiopica = lobata the furrows are still more blurred and more hidden by a pubescence unlike Densesulcata, the stretching apical is much shorter the size of the individuals is larger (at least in what I could see) but in any case it seems the rule. I would have to move (not easy between work, family obligations and this passion) and I rehabilitate what there is to do ......
And I have not seen any form of transition yet between aethiopica and densesulcata ......

Edited by - Jérôme Sudre on 06/09/2018 14:41:41
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